Prophecy given by David Noakes
at Moriel Conference

'New Beginnings' 1st November 1997.

Introduction (Yacov Prasch, of Moriel Ministries)
Relevant Teaching (David Noakes)
The Prophecy
My Comments and Notes


I first began thinking about this subject 'New Beginnings' a couple of years ago when we had a conference with Clifford Hill, our late brother David Forbes who I miss very much, David Pawson and various people of the same ilk. David Noakes was there and he gave a prophecy. It was at this particular time I first began thinking about the idea of new beginnings. We were having this conference to talk about: 'should there be an alternative charismatic movement or an alternative pentecostalism because our ways have so parted we can no longer go in the same direction with the rest of the charismatic and pentecostal movement? Is it time to have a split?'

Now, I've been thinking of this and talking about things like the house of David and the house of Saul for some time. But this conference - it was more like a meeting of leaders - that we had was something of a climax - or a watershed, I would say - was a prophecy that David Noakes had and I heard this prophecy, and it has not been made publicly. And it very much fits what we are going to speak about today from 1 Samuel.

I have talked to David and asked that he would give that prophecy that he gave. Now only some leaders have heard this, only a handful of people have heard him say this before. If you don't know David he is another person I know to be of good report, who has had words from the Lord that have proved true, even predictively. I wouldn't take such things lightly; I wouldn't give a platform under my accountability to the Lord to somebody who I didn't trust and know to be of good report. I would very strongly encourage people to weigh carefully what David is saying. I have heard it, I have prayed about it and I accept what he is saying. I believe it is from God and I think it is even more pertinent now than when he gave it, which was about three years ago.

(David Noakes) I wouldn't dream of taking up time unnecessarily when its so precious unless I believed it was of God. I'm here because the Lord told me to come. I'm here because I love the remnant of God's people and I want to be here and I'm here because I love this brother and I want to support him in any way I can.

I didn't come necessarily expecting to share anything, but the Lord's laid it on my heart during this theme of new beginnings I should do this as briefly as I can.

Fourteen years ago God started speaking to me. He spoke three times in one day out of the Scriptures about the account of King Joash repairing the temple. I was burdened before the Lord because I was looking at this travesty - this was 1983 - this travesty of the body of Christ where Jesus cannot display his character, he cannot display his glory, he cannot display his truth because of the appalling state of the disrepair of the temple, which is the temple made of living stones.

I was praying and praying about this; three times in one day, twice out of Kings, once out of Chronicles, God gave me this scripture. I must just read a little bit because it is relevant for some of you here. You find in 2 Kings 12 that King Joash who was a godly sort of young King, reigned in Jerusalem and he became concerned because the temple of the Lord was in a state of disrepair and it was the responsibility of the priests to apply the funds for getting it sorted out and repaired, and they weren't doing it. And you find in verse 4 that Joash said to the priests "collect the money". Verse 5: "Let every priest receive money from the treasures and let it be used to repair whatever damage is found in the temple."

Now, bear in mind that the temple of the body of Christ is in absolute ruins in the West, and please God, the Lord will rebuild it, but we're in a state of new beginnings. It hasn't happened yet.

By the 23rd year of King Joash the priests still had not repaired the temple. God went first to those who had the responsibility over the temple; the Levites who had the accountability. He went first to those who had the positions of privilege and responsibility and who had control of the resources and said Get this temple repaired. God went first to the leaders.

When the charismatic renewal movement started, this movement which has spawned a hybrid which has become an Ishmael - and God is still intending to bring forth an Isaac of His own choosing, the trouble is that Ishmael always persecutes Isaac, but don't let that worry you yet. It will be the leaders of Ishmael who will persecute Isaac hardest.

But what God did, and what King Joash did was to summon the priests. It says they hadn't repaired the temple, King Joash summoned Jehoiada the priest and the other priests and asked them "Why aren't you repairing the damage done to the temple? take no more money from your treasurers but hand it over for repairing the temple." The priests agreed they would not collect any more money from the people and they would not repair the temple themselves. They then diverted these funds and you find that when the amount had come in, verse 11, the money was given to the men appointed to supervise the work on the temple. With it they paid those who worked on the temple of the Lord - the carpenters and builders, the masons and stone cutters. The priests and Levites were out of the picture. God had diverted the resources to those who were willing to get on and do the work. They purchased timber and dressed stone for the repair of the temple of the Lord and met all the other expenses of restoring the temple. The money brought into the temple was not spent making silver basins etc, it was paid to the workmen who used it to repair the temple. They did not require an accounting from those to whom they gave the money to pay the workers because they acted with complete honesty.

The time has come. I thought in 1983 it would be tomorrow or next year. But the time has at last come when God is beginning to do just this. The resources which he has given through the activity of the Holy Spirit is beginning to be diverted from those who first received it to those who will give a good account of it. God is not too bothered whether they are priests or Levites, whether they are ordained or not ordained. He is concerned with honesty, integrity and a faithful walk before him. God is bringing in new beginnings and he is raising up new leadership. and if he is raising you up as a leader do not worry that you are not, as it were, a priest or a Levite, worry only that the Lord Jesus has called and appointed you to do just this work.

Now, I had to give that to you as a background. I hope I've not wasted time. I want to encourage you and I now need to read to you this word of prophecy.

I went to Toronto - I didn't want to go, but finally God told me I must, on the basis that I couldn't speak with any authority from my perspective unless I had actually seen what was going on. What I saw going on was appalling; Yacov referred to some of it. I saw unclean spirits manifesting in men and women. I saw the lot. It was devastating. It was appalling. Then I came back, became involved in a lot of meetings and in London just before the beginning of December 1994 I was shown some videos which included one which you will know very well I think, of Rodney Howard-Browne and Kenneth Copeland doing their dual comedy act on the stage. I have never been quite so appalled seeing a blatant misuse of what should be a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. I went away from that meeting in London that day, I was on the train going back home; I was so appalled; there had been no opportunity for prayer although it was a meeting of leaders that day and I was saying "Father, you must surely please have something to say. Lord, I daren't say anything unless I believe God has said it. If God hasn't said it, I have no business saying anything. Lord, I want to know what you are saying about this."

I went to bed that night saying the same thing. I fell asleep on it, woke up in the morning, was due to go to London again, I was in the middle of shaving and suddenly I felt the Lord say "Put down your razor and write." .....

I am now going to read to you what I received in the light of the videos I had been shown the day before. This was 13th December 1994. I shared it at Bawtry Hall as Yacov has told you:


"What you are now seeing is not the first wave of the deception that is to come, nor will it be the last. Satan is establishing an increasingly strong and broad power base in the churches of your nation in order to draw my people away after false hopes of a cheap and illusory glory of the flesh in this age. Do not look to the men who seem to be the principal instruments of the deception. (I believe that is principally the false prophets who are going around). They are false prophets who come and go like shooting stars. Their judgement is in my hand and I will execute it in its season. They prophesy by Baal but I will surely vindicate my own Holy Name.

Be concerned rather with the faithless shepherds of the flocks of my people. For an illusion of glory and success they sell the sheep of my pasture into the hand of the deceiver. False and deluded, they do not know my voice, for they do not reverence my Word. Puffed up with selfish ambition and vain glory, they lead my people into false ways. Thinking that they see in their blindness, they lead those who trust them into a ditch. They are as the Pharisees of old who love the places of honour and the applause of men, and they gain it at the expense of leading gullible men and women into ways which have an appearance of light but are in truth are a highway into deepest darkness.

Beware of such men. False shepherds and blind guides, my flock. Surely I will require an accounting at their hands for the blood of those who are being misled into the ways of death. For it is they who encourage the false prophets, and import the doctrines of demons into the midst of my sheepfold. My anger burns hotly against them and surely if they do not soon repent I will give them up to the hardness of their heart and there will be no returning for them when that point has been reached.

Do not trust the compromisers who seek to draw together and reconcile that which cannot be reconciled; who seek to find a middle way. Surely between light and darkness there is no middle way, but only an abyss of confusion and bewilderment.

This wave of deception will recede and with it those who now falsely prophesy. But the false shepherds amongst my people will remain as a danger, ready to grasp hold of the next wave when it comes, for surely it will do so. Each wave will be deadlier than the last and will attract more of those whose feet are not firmly grounded on the rock of my Word. Through the deception my hand will be at work. I will refine and separate those who will not bow the knee to Baal from those who do not love the truth. I will have a refined remnant who will be my true voice in this nation and through their testimony I will bring in a harvest from the lost world but only those who hold to the truth and walk in my Spirit will be used in that purpose.

I will judge the faithless shepherds who seek their own ambitions and the adulation of men. They will go their own way to destruction, but I will appoint other shepherds for my people; men whom I am even now preparing in hidden places, walking unseen paths. They will be of humble and contrite spirit, repentant of heart and walking in awe of their God and in deep reverence of his Word.

Surely in the last days I will keep a people for myself who are true to me and will shine like the stars of heaven in the increasing darkness and turn many to the way of righteousness and salvation.

Contend for the faith steadfastly. Do not strive with those who will not hear, but declare my truth patiently and perseveringly. Expose the strategies of the adversary. Blow the trumpet of warning, that those who have ears may hear, but leave the results to me.

Pray that the deaf may hear. Pray that the blind shepherds may yet see. But remember that it is only my Spirit which convicts of sin and guilt and of judgement to come.

The task of the watchman is to warn. If you will fulfill that task you will have served your master well."

That was what I had to sit and write on the 13th December of 1994. I believe that the time is now coming; is at hand, when we shall see increasingly the fulfilment of this word; increasingly the judgement on the faithless shepherds. But remember the Lord's emphasis was, its not the false prophets who are the principal danger; they come and go like stars in the night. It is those who want what they've got.

Jeremiah 5:30,31 - the prophets prophesy falsely, the priests rule by their own authority and my people love it this way, but what will you do in the end?

It is the shepherds who want these things for their own purposes. The Lord says beware of such men. But the Lord is raising up faithful men, hidden places, hard wood. Those of you who have been in the refiners fire are so hot that you think nothing will be left. These are days of preparation. God is getting us ready. God has got his hand on many people. If he has been calling you, or is calling you to take up what he is asking you to take up and to lead his people in the ways of righteousness, don't be afraid to take it up, don't say who am I? It is not you, but Jesus in you who will do it.

My personal reflections on this report.

I believe the prophecy is a true word from God. However, man's interpretation of what God is saying, is often faulty and can be tainted by the person's current situation, acquaintances, doctrines and emotional and intellectual position. Therefore I do not fully agree with the interpretations given in this report.

The truth is now so very close to the lie that we can hardly know the difference between them. The deception is extremely subtle. While I agree with the overall tendency to look for a new move of God amongst His believing Remnant, I also know that there is a deceiving influence at work in the Remnant Body seeking to guide them towards a "restorationist" solution to today's problems. (I use that term "restoration" loosely and I don't mean the new-churches or their leaders.)

God is indeed preserving for Himself a Remnant out of the apostasy. He will indeed work amongst them and raise up new leadership - a humble, submissive and self-deprecating leadership that does not rule harshly over God's own. I also agree that the years of testing have formed a new kind of Body that is resilient to false doctrine, and committed above all to God and Truth, rather than the delusions of humanistic self-fulfillment, empowerment and global revival.

We still have a long way to go. However, it is obvious that God has been silently working for many years to forge a people for His Name's sake, those who will do God's bidding, minister in love to others, and seek no reward for themselves. Such people tend to keep a low profile, for they are not seeking success, wealth, popularity or any of the prizes of current Church Ministry.

I am saying all this to confirm much of the above report. However, there are dangers.

An alternative is on offer - that of organising another Body to suit various erroneous ideals and doctrines; a Body that is formed out of man's desires rather than God's; a Body that has been arranged for the appetites of others, who seek something for themselves.

In that regard, I want to point out that the Ishmael/Isaac concept is not unique to this word, but has been proposed by those in the Latter-Rain/Toronto/Restoration camps, and in particular by Paul Cain when he spoke at the infamous Word and Spirit conference (London 1992) linking Restoration leaders like Gerald Coates to R.T. Kendall of Westminster Chapel. The Conference was reported in the Spring 1993 issue of "Mainstream" . Click here to view the report.

A book was eventually published containing the papers from that Conference. It is titled "The Word and The Spirit" by Paul Cain and R.T. Kendall, published by Kingsway, Eastbourne, UK. It proposes that the Spirit-based charismatic fellowships (the right-brained) and the intellectual, word-based Reformed churches (the left-brained) will unite in the Isaac Body, resulting in the last great harvest on earth.

The idea of the current charismatic renewal bringing forth an "Isaac" is not new. It appears in sonship teaching as the "Joseph Company". Latter-Rain and Sonship teachers always did reject the Charismatic Renewal (because it worked within the denominations, and these teachers see denominations as "Harlot-Babylon").

Such people have always looked for a pure, united, non-denominational Body - the "overcomers" (Isaac) who will ultimately restore and purify the Church (or else judge her as apostate) and establish the Church as Christ Incarnate on earth, in fullness and completion.

One Sonship teacher writes of a prophecy he received from God about the Joseph Company (too long to reproduce here) but he finishes by saying that those who reject the Joseph Company are actually rejecting God Himself. For the Joseph Company is Christ Incarnate on earth.

"Even so, as Joseph's brothers, the Lord's children shall never become sons and members of my TRUE and PURE and LIVING BODY (emphasis in original) until they know it was they who rejected Me on that cruel Tree. Yes, they cut off their hope as well as their inheritance to sonship when they, too, rejected my Josephs - for these Josephs were ME!" (emphasis in original)"

Clearly, this Isaac is more than just a preserved Remnant willing to minister love and comfort in the endtimes. It is the only Body of Christ, and being outside of it is the route to judgement and hell.

This concept is now taught by many in the Toronto and Restoration movements as the "post-charismatic-church". The Church has supposedly rejected the problems of the Charismatic Renewal and gone beyond it to the true plan of God! This plan first came to popular notice in the Latter Rain Revival in Canada, and since then has been preached by a number of men including some now at work to reintroduce it into the British Charismatic churches.

The Isaac of Paul Cain was a wonder-child indeed! He would change the Church and the World by his unity, purity and power, doing great miracles so as to influence governments and kings. This new Man, Isaac, would shake the world, putting earlier revivals to shame and exceeding everything that Wesley, Whitfield and Spurgeon had done. Millions would be saved, healed and delivered.

There is much truth in the fact that God will preserve a believing Remnant. But to go beyond that into the doctrines of fullness and sonship, whereby a certain elite corps have the calling to restore the Body to purity and power in the endtimes, is to make a huge mistake.

I am not suggesting that David Noakes or Yacov Prasch knowingly preach these things. I am simply pointing out that there are dangerous elements who seek to influence such leaders, drawing them unknowingly into their way of thinking. But a little leaven leavens the lump, and who knows where such teaching will go next?

David Noakes says "Now, bear in mind that the temple of the body of Christ is in absolute ruins in the West, and please God, the Lord will rebuild it, but we're in a state of new beginnings. It hasn't happened yet."

The Temple of God, the Church, is indeed in a state of brokenness and disrepair. Why? Because that is what God has ordained, and prophesied for the end of time, shortly before His Return!! The scriptures speak of this falling-away in some detail, but nowhere do they speak of a restoration before the Coming of the Lord. They speak of preservation, protection, and blessing for true believers, but not of restoration to fullness for the visible Church. Nowhere are we led to believe that "the Lord will rebuild" the Church.

Secondly, the "new-beginnings" concept (although David Noakes's use here could be a complete coincidence) is another sonship concept, that has also been taken up by the Toronto and Restoration churches. John Wimber used the phrase extensively when praising the Toronto outpouring of 1994. The phrase comes from the LR idea of a "new-thing" - a new revelation of power and a spiritual awakening that will bring a life never before experienced by Christians.

When I received the book from which these sonship teachings were taken, I also received a covering letter from the author. He writes:

"God bless you richly for your faithfulness in prayers and support of this ministry and calling [I don't support this ministry but I did buy the book!], to His backslidden Church to REPENT and in turn challenge them to enter the door of NEW BEGINNINGS!" (emphasis in original).

From the same teacher in the same book comes the statement that God is beginning to bring his first-born sons to perfection, with an anointing far beyond that of earlier generations, for it is a "anointing of new beginnings" represented by the number eight. This company (a merging of God and Man) will go far beyond the experience of ordinary believers in power and ministry, and attain sonship, taking rule in the heavenlies, and judge the apostate Church and mankind. It is the One New Man, the Christ Incarnate.

Not everybody takes on board the full implications of this teaching, but it's not (in my mind) a pick-and-mix option. Either we stick to the plain teaching of scripture, or we adopt sonship teaching as a whole.

Scripture never speaks of an elite corps who (by spiritual enlightenment or impartation) receive a deeper revelation than normal and consign most of the believing Church to judgement and destruction. This is a new-age belief and a satanic delusion.

Another oft-repeated teaching associated with sonship (and now Toronto and others) is the necessity for "spiritual fathers" to guide us into this new beginning. Instead of the Holy Spirit as the Guide and Teacher, sonship introduces the high-flying Eagles, the Prophets, the specially anointed ones who have to come forth as leaders of the Body, to teach the sonship doctrines to the masses. Certainly, some in the present movements consider themselves to be the Spiritual Fathers of the new churches.

But did Jesus not warn us, "Call no man Father":

"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant." Matt 23:8-11

It would certainly be ideal for some in current leadership to pounce on God's Remnant with a desire to become their Spiritual Fathers, to teach them doctrines which they somehow cannot receive from the Holy Spirit Himself. This is a real danger. We have had enough of false teaching, from self-important leaders. Let the prophets speak, but "let the other judge". (1 Cor 14:29-30)

We want no more of Roman priesthood in the Body! Let each Christian develop gifts of discernment so that he is not swept to and fro by every wind of doctrine, and able to boldly challenge what is not found in the Word of God. While respecting gifts of Teaching, and Pastoral callings, we can also be responsible before God as individuals to seek the guidance of God personally, and thus publicly contradict whatever is not of God.

I believe that is part of the current move of God, to isolate individuals from their former feeding-troughs, where food was provided free and easy, and to force them to dig for food themselves. Until each believer functions as he should, as a fully-working MEMBER (limb) of a Body, we are not prepared for the imposition of "spiritual-fathers" taking us where we know not.

There is another slight bone of contention here, though I emphasise that I am in broad agreement with what is said:

"They then diverted these funds and you find that when the amount had come in, verse 11, the money was given to the men appointed to supervise the work on the temple. With it they paid those who worked on the temple of the Lord - the carpenters and builders, the masons and stone cutters. The priests and Levites were out of the picture. God had diverted the resources to those who were willing to get on and do the work."

Much of the focus of David Noake's interpretation is about funding. It may be that he was particularly concerned that day with a cashflow problem! However, it does concern me that so much emphasis was given to the re-direction of funds from the apostate system to the new workers. Are we to be overly concerned with who will fund the Body of Christ in days to come?

I have always found that, when God truly calls, He provides. There is no need to fret, or develop a theology of the redirection of funds. Maybe the money will start flowing in our direction - but who cares? And if it does NOT, we will still be required to get on with the job.

If testing times come, if we are reduced to poverty and lose our homes (as many early Christians did) then is that not equally a part of our ministry to the Lord - though God forbid that it should happen.

I think the consideration of funding is a mistake. Many are the men who have stumbled over this, to their own hurt. God sent out his disciples, commanding them NOT to provide for themselves, but to live by faith. There are many ways of doing this, and not all ministries are meant to act entirely without asking for money or charging for materials. But the principle still applies, and only if a minister or ministry is straying from God's will do the funds dry up.

A good way to keep a check on whether you are in the centre of God's will, is to keep an eye on the bank balance. Even though there may be moments of panic, whatever God orders will be paid for.

This may be simplistic, but I believe it is the best route, and least likely to ensnare us in fears, greed, unscrupulous or illegal behaviour, and an undue pressure on people to give.

To sum up, I do believe God spoke through David Noakes, and I am blessed by that. I also uphold Yacov Prasch and support his ministry. I don't wish to be critical. However, the interpretation here can be reduced to this thought "God wants to rebuild the Temple and if we have enough money and the right leaders, we can do it".

Put that way, I think you will agree, that it's an interpretation heading in the wrong direction, and likely to lead believers astray (at a very sensitive time for them.)

Please do not accept what I say as "gospel" but seek the Lord for yourselves. If you have anything to add to this, please e-mail me.

Tricia Tillin.